Talk:Dragnar
Category:Prime Ministers is a sub-cat of Category:Heads of Government. Which one fits better for Dragnar here? TR (talk) 22:13, June 30, 2016 (UTC) :It's been years since I've read this dreadful series, and I've actively suppressed what I haven't forgotten in the usual way. I don't remember anything about this guy at all. But if his title is First Minister, I'd need to be convinced that there's a meaningful difference between that title and PM. (A shame we don't have a Scotsman among our regular contributors, that would probably clarify things for us.) Turtle Fan (talk) 02:54, July 1, 2016 (UTC) ::I suspect that how the Scots use the title is quite different from what HT had in mind with this office. TR (talk) 14:52, July 1, 2016 (UTC) :::Well since you mention in, Raumsdalia is definitely not a constitutional monarchy, so I would guess that Dragnar was neither PM in the Westminster sense nor HoG, but some combination of top civil servant (like the job Scaurus sometimes held in Videssos) and all-around detail person for things the monarch can't/won't work on himself (like the Hand of the King on Game of Thrones.) Turtle Fan (talk) 15:00, July 1, 2016 (UTC) Jonathan, you appear to have recently read the series and added PM. What is your opinion on the matter? ML4E (talk) 15:48, July 2, 2016 (UTC) :The series is one big logical mess. The political structure isn't addressed in any detail. Since First Minister is close enough semantically to Prime Minister to make no difference, calling him a PM makes just as much sense as anything.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 05:45, July 3, 2016 (UTC) ::To be fair, I wouldn't have expected a lot of political detail from a story such as this. The POV is an outsider (even if he does hold an estate and a title of nobility) and very little action takes place within the capital, still less while it's functioning as it should be. Political detail would be extraneous and get in the way of the story-telling--and the story, such as it is, has a great deal of trouble getting out of its own way. Turtle Fan (talk) 16:18, July 3, 2016 (UTC) :::Semantically means little in this case. Semantically, "President" can mean anything from ceremonial head of state to the head of the executive branch like the US President to "President for Life" dictatorship. In this case, I think First Minister seems to mean first among equals in an advisory role rather than head of government Prime Minister. We might want to create a new sub-cat for advisers to an absolute monarch. Or we might have something that is similar from e.g. Ruled Britannia. ML4E (talk) 16:30, July 4, 2016 (UTC) ::::The story's vague (and logically incoherent) enough that we can pretend he's a PM if we wish.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 17:57, July 4, 2016 (UTC) :::::"If we wish" being the key variable here. Our PMs category is heavily steeped in a Westminstrian parliamentary context and I'm loath to muddy the waters here when ML4E is holding out a more attractive option. It will be useful not just here and in RB but for Derlavai, Detina, Videssos, and other fantasy worlds. Turtle Fan (talk) 18:54, July 4, 2016 (UTC) ::::::Presuming Dragnar's role at least hints at being akin to a head of government, I'm ok with keeping him in the broad HoG category. There are plenty of instances of officials who were de facto HoG even if their country did't really have a de jure office. Cardinal Richielieu, for example, is generally counted as a "chief minister" and "head of government" given his functions within Louis XIII's government. TR (talk) 19:01, July 4, 2016 (UTC)